All episodes
Episode 41

Episode 41: The PDF is Dead with Nick Mason @ Turtl

Featuring Nick Mason·December 2023

About this episode

Are you still using PDFs to distribute content? If so, it’s time to change your ways. Join Jonathan Bland, the Co-Founder of Omni Lab, and Nick Mason, the CEO & Founder of Turtl, for a conversation centered around content. What does it take to create engaging content that resonates with your audience? What are the biggest issues with PDF-based content? How have content trends changed over the last 5 years? Discover what it takes to stay ahead of the curve and make sure you’re not missing opportunities with outdated content.

Watch on YouTube

Why We're Rethinking the PDF as a Lead Gen Format

I talked to Nick Mason, founder and CEO of Turtl, and the conversation kept circling back to a problem most of us have lived through without naming it. We ship a gated PDF. We get a pile of leads. Sales calls every single one of them the same way. And we have no idea who actually read the thing.

Turtl builds interactive documents as an alternative to PDFs, so Nick has spent years staring at exactly this gap. But the conversation wasn't really a pitch for his product. It was about a much bigger question: why do we still measure content success by whether someone downloaded it, instead of whether they got anything out of it.

The lead gen playbook that quietly stopped working

Here's the pattern most B2B teams run. Produce a report or a guide. Gate it behind a form. Push the resulting list to sales. Call it done.

The problem shows up later, when demos aren't rolling in the way the funnel math suggested they should. Nick pointed out something I've heard directly from heads of marketing more times than I'd like to admit. You ask someone how they liked a piece of content, and they say they haven't read it yet. Or they read the first page and stopped.

A download tells you someone filled out a form. It doesn't tell you whether the content earned any of their attention. And when that's the only signal you have, sales ends up working a list with no idea who's actually interested and who just wanted the PDF.

Why the PDF became the default (and why that's the whole problem)

Nick walked through how we got here. Physical handouts for sales reps, thirty years back. Then the internet arrives, and the same handout becomes a downloadable file. Then marketing automation tools show up, and that file gets parked behind a lead capture form. Each step made sense on its own. The habit just never got questioned.

His view on where that leaves us now was blunt:

"The internet and modern computers are unbelievably more capable in terms of what they can offer than what a dead tree can offer."

A PDF replicates a printed page on a screen. It can't tell you which section someone lingered on, when they closed the tab, or whether they came back later. Turtl ran eye-tracking studies comparing identical content in PDF format versus an interactive format, and found readers engaged for roughly ten times longer with the interactive version. Same words. Same argument. Different container, wildly different amount of attention captured.

The envelope vs. the thing inside

The line from Nick that stuck with me most was this one:

"Are you trying to optimize the envelope, or are you trying to optimize the thing that's actually inside?"

If downloads are the only metric that matters, the incentive is to make the headline as clickable as possible. Substance becomes optional. Nick described customers who'd point to 20,000 reads on a piece and call it a win, while the bounce rate told a different story entirely. They optimized the envelope. Nobody checked what was inside.

This is where I think a lot of content strategy quietly goes wrong. We treat the click or the download as the finish line, when it's really just the moment the real test begins. Whether the content was worth that person's time is a separate question, and most teams have no way to answer it.

Matching follow-up to actual intent, not just to a form fill

This is the part that actually changes how a team operates day to day. If you can see that someone spent twenty minutes in a piece of content and paused on a specific section, you follow up differently than you would with someone who bounced after ten seconds.

Right now, most teams can't make that distinction. Every download gets treated as equal intent, which usually means every download gets the same aggressive "let's get a demo on the calendar" outreach. Nick's point was that this is often the exact thing that makes someone disengage from further content. They weren't ready for that ask, and now they're less likely to open the next one.

Feeding engagement data back into a CRM changes the shape of that follow-up. Nick described customers using time-on-content and section-level engagement to trigger a different kind of outreach entirely, one that references the specific topic someone actually spent time on rather than a generic "saw you downloaded our guide" email. That's a better experience for the buyer, and it's a more honest read of where they actually are.

Give away small amounts of value before asking for the big commitment

We got into the trust problem that comes with unfamiliar brands. If someone doesn't know your company, asking them to commit fifteen minutes to a dense report is a big ask before you've earned it. Nick's answer was to think in increments.

"Give away 30 seconds worth of stuff. But make it so that once you've shown to me actually that 30 seconds was really valuable, I can then go and spend a minute and then five minutes and then ten minutes. And then you've hooked me in."

He compared it to the Costco sample table. You're not asking someone to buy the whole case up front. You're letting them taste it first. In practice, that looks like a short LinkedIn post carrying one idea, which then becomes the seed for a longer newsletter that goes deeper for whoever wants more. Same core value, delivered at increasing levels of commitment as trust builds.

I asked Nick whether format even matters much beyond that, and his answer was more interesting than a simple "it depends." He argued that engagement actually goes up in longer, more complex content, specifically because readers who choose to go deep are looking to genuinely learn something, not just skim for a takeaway. Format follows intent. It's not the other way around.

Final thoughts

None of this is really about PDFs being outdated, even though that's the easy headline. It's that most B2B content strategy runs on a metric that was never designed to answer the question we're actually asking.

Downloads and email captures tell you a form got filled out. They don't tell you if the content did its job, and they definitely don't tell you who's worth a real conversation versus who just wanted the file. Nick's argument, and I think he's right, is that the format matters less than whether you can actually see what happens after someone opens the thing.

We're going to keep testing this on our own content. Not because interactive formats are inherently better, but because "we don't know if this worked" isn't a strategy; it's a gap. If your content program can't tell you what happened after the click, that's probably the thing to fix before you produce anything else.

Want this applied to your program?

Book a strategy call and we will pressure-test your paid media in 30 minutes.

Book a strategy call